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Where will Firmino fit in?
KC asked in this morning’s mailbox ‘Where does Coutinho fit in now?’ I think the question should be, where does Firmino fit in now? Coutinho is clearly a much better option on the left as Firmino has been pretty anonymous filling in there over the last few games. Firmino offers a lot more when played through the middle and has contributed a to a lot of goals in the early part of the season but would you drop Origi on current form? Five in five warrants a starting place for me and as much as I like Firmino, I really think when Coutinho returns he will be the one to give way.
On an unrelated note, I can’t help but read the stories about Oscar being linked __with numerous clubs and think he would be an upgrade on Wijnaldum. He’s come through the Brazil ranks __with Coutinho and Firmino as well so would surely link up well with them. Chelsea wouldn’t sell to a title rival though so it won’t happen, maybe if we finish sixth we could get him in the summer.
James Harley, LFC
…Coutinho fits in as Liverpool’s best player.
Four out of nine points from Bournemouth, West Ham and Middlesbrough without him compared to top of the league with him shows he very much has a place.
Richard (LFC)
On the wonderful Lallana…
‘If he could only just add goals to his game…’ said everyone.
Well he has and hes bloody brilliant. Best English player in the Premier League me thinks.
Sean
Liverpool are being allowed to play…
As a Chelsea fan, after all those happy moments subsided, it took me till today morning to see the MOTD highlights of the Liverpool game and I was extremely impressed by the speed of their moment and the ease at which they beat players. I began to think that even though with ruthless efficiency we are playing and winning games, why our movement is not as fluid as Liverpool’s. Of course, the so called gegenpressing is a reason but I have an entirely different theory. Every other team in the league knows about Liverpool’s deficiency in the defense and I am noticing that not one team have looked to defend or keep it tight against Liverpool. All of them are trying to play like Liverpool and try to score which makes it helpful for Liverpool to play their games so fast and ruthless in scoring goals. The only teams who parked the bus are Manchester United (hilariously) and Southampton where the scores were 0-0.
If you look at teams against Chelsea, Sunderland played seven defenders yesterday (SEVEN)! On Sunday, West Brom were like Roman Pillars and they refused to move out of their quarter. The teams realized that it is futile to attack Chelsea due to their new found absolute defensive solidity and if they lose the ball anywhere, they are in some danger. So I feel the difference between the free scoring Liverpool and Chelsea, who themselves are scoring proper but not as good as Liverpool, is the way other teams treat the Reds and the Blues.
And this is not a dig at Liverpool and I am honestly impressed by their sexy movements to score incredible goals.
Sreekanth, Germany
Where you from, you Cescy thing?
People quickly forget who you are do they Cesc? I haven’t. You’re a sh*t Jack Wilshere without the injuries.
Graham Simons, Gooner, Norf London
Mourinho ‘deserves’ to win?
Has anyone been keeping count of how many times Mourinho has used the work ‘deserve’ this season? Deserve is a loser word. It’s used by losers when they lose.
Greg, EFC
Why does everybody get more credit than Arsenal?
I’m always curious at how the media portray the ‘success’ of different managers. Football 365 quite rightly point out the typically over-hyped support of Tactics Tim, Run Araand ‘Arry, most ‘PFMs’ and the way in which a foreign Manager like Claude Puel or Bob Bradley is immediately treated with cynicism and skepticism.
Arsenal lose an away game for the first time since February (with contentious refereeing decisions), and a match in the league for the first time since the opening day of the season, and the same old ‘mentally weak’ blah, blah, blah cliches come rolling out. This is the same Arsenal who have won 15 games this season, seven of which have been won by a margin of three goals or more, a record bettered by no team in English football, and have topped their Champions League group too.
Man Utd on the other hand have a ‘special’ new Manager, European football’s third most prolific goalscoring machine over the past 10 years, the most expensive player in world football, the best player from the Bundesliga last season, and a brand new £30m Centre Back added to an already hugely expensive squad boasting the most expensive wage bill ever known in the history of football, and all we constantly hear is how well they have been playing, how unlucky they have been etc…They beat the poorest team the Premier League has seen across the calendar year of 2016, courtesy of a very late goal, to maintain a gap of six points to fourth spot, and this is used to support the theory that they have been playing well all along!
Blimey. I feel like Arsenal are the equivalent of Bob Bradley (attacked with lazy stereotypes), and Man Utd are the equivalent of Tactics Tim (defended at all costs) in terms of how the two teams are portrayed by the media.
Naz, Gooner
…’Must we insist on drawing conclusions about the Spaniard and his style after every result or poor run of form?’
Those conclusions can only be drawn if you’re second in the league, top of your Champions League group (and 20/1 with Paddy Power Champions League odds to win the whole thing) and you’ve lost only three matches all season.
Conor, (I know it’s been covered, but the Mediawatch quote is fresh) Dublin
Holding > Mustafi for Arsenal system
Completely agree with this morning’s Mailbox about the importance of Mustafi to the team from Rob, Croydon. However, I don’t think Gabriel is the answer, I think we should look to Holding.
Holding has so far played three games for Arsenal. In those three games he made a massive 5.7 clearances per game (1.3 more than Gabriel), as well as blocked 1.3 shots, 1.3 shots blocked and 1.3 successful tackles. All decent stats, but I think we can dig deeper.
With Xhaka and Coquelin, the defence has much better support and, in theory, fewer attackers should be getting through to run at the back lines. This should push the opposition to go wide and get crosses in the box. The opposition should actually be looking to exploit this with Monreal and Bellerin pushing further up the field.
Holding is much more suited to this style of defending. He has better positioning for balls coming into the box and a better leap from what I’ve seen. Our wingers are also dropping back more often to defend (bar the odd lapse…Walcott), taking up positions more or less around the edge of the centre circle, which should mean the attackers are pushed more and more down the wings.
I’m not saying Holding is the perfect Mustafi replacement, and Gabriel is clearly more experienced. I just feel that in the current set-up for Arsenal, I see Holding adding more to the overall team than Gabriel.
Rob A (Yes one of those games was vs Nottingham Forrest…) AFC
Ed’s Palace thoughts
* Well done to Manchester United on their win. They were the better side, whose greater quality showed in the end. They had twice as many shots on target and nearly three times as many attempts on goal.
* There were contentious refereeing decisions both ways. Manchester United will feel they should have had a penalty for handball, and a goal ruled out for offside; Palace, on the other hand, could be aggrieved with an unpunished handball in an offside position by Zlatan Ibrahimovic and that dirty f###er who should have been sent off.
* The other day F365 referred to a ‘Gareth Barry’, where someone commits multiple booking-worthy offences before and after having their name taken, without being punished. Similarly, perhaps a ‘Marcos Rojo’ could be escaping with a yellow card for a dangerous tackle that should end their participation in the game.
For all that we deplore simulation and embellishment, it’s worth pointing out that Phil McNulty for the BBC highlighted that arguably what saved Rojo’s skin both times was that neither Idrissa Gueye nor Wilfried Zaha made a meal of what had happened.
* Crystal Palace are f###ed. In the grand scheme of things, defeat by a single goal to Manchester United, a team in contention for Europa League qualification, is not the worst result in the world, but it is indicative of a few problems. The crowd were, by all accounts, expressing their dissatisfaction with the team and the manager after the game.
* The Eagles lined up in what looked like a 4-5-1, but actually worked more like a 4-4-2, with Zaha moving centrally and aiming to run beyond Christian Benteke. That’s right, the league’s most in-form winger was playing centrally, rather than against Manchester United’s vulnerable full-backs. Lee Chung-yong started in place of Andros Townsend, and the lesser-spotted Mathieu Flamini came in for Joe Ledley. This made the team very stolid, and it did seem like an exercise in parking the bus They only seemed to come out of their shell a bit when Ledley came on for Flamini (at half-time, of course).
Seriously, is there any other team that makes a change at half-time in just about every game?
* The last time Damien Delaney had the ball in that sort of advanced position he put one in the top corner against Liverpool in the ‘Crystanbul (not Constantinanfield)’ game. He’s a man of hidden depths.
* Alan Pardew has to be on borrowed time now, doesn’t he? Again, the margin of defeat, the calibre of opposition and sense of injustice mean that this game in and of itself is not grounds for dismissal, but as part of a wider picture, it is.
His selections and substitutions really annoyed people. I would presume Lee was brought in to the side because Pardew believes he is a harder worker than Andros Townsend, and also to teach Townsend a lesson for disappointing in previous games. However, the decision to withdraw Lee with the game at 1-1 and bring on full-back Zeki Fryers in an advanced position instead of Townsend, made little sense and will only damage the confidence of one of the Premier League’s most confidence-dependent outfield players. Likewise, the final change, bringing off our best-performing midfielder, James McArthur, and introducing Fraizer Campbell, was baffling. It looked like Pardew was rolling the dice, sacrificing defensive shape in the hope of securing all three points. It backfired, and the manager has to take the blame for it.
Increasingly, the Southampton game is looking like an anomaly, because before and after that win the team has proven incapable of outscoring or out-defending their opposition, regardless of who it happens to be. Whatever tactics they try to use, nothing seems to be working, and ultimately the manager has to take responsibility. The Eagles have won just six of their last 37 games, which is relegation form of the most rotten kind.
Following the Chelsea game, three of Palace’s next four opponents are Watford, Bolton Wanderers (FA Cup) and Swansea City (there’s Arsenal in there too, but never mind). These could be an ideal set of fixtures for a new manager bounce.
Ed Quoththeraven
And Ant’s…
Five minutes to go, score tied at 1-1. You’re in danger of being upstaged by an ‘interesting’ performance from the referee. Have a quick look at your bench, hmmm, that left-back you like to chuck on because he provided a cross against Sunderland is already on the pitch. Andros is looking at you expectantly but you’re still trying to work out how to fit two wingers in to your team. Oh hang on, look, there’s Frazier, he scored in the dying moments of the last game remember, against a club he used to play for…a brainwave. Mr Campbell used to play for this lot too! Definitely get him on the pitch. Now just remember there is no point doing things by halves, he who dares Rodders, he who dares. No-one will expect Jimmy Mac, our best midfielder, to get taken off. The stunned surprise will leave them open to Frazier’s charm and he’ll definitely pop up with the goods.
Now, what colour tie will I wear for my first England game…the blue really brings out my eyes but red is more royal and befitting of a king. A king?! Who am I kidding, THE King, cor blimey Chunks, sometimes I make myself laugh! The only thing left to do now is decide how to celebrate the use of a 4-4-2, no-one saw that coming, the fools! Maybe I’ll do a sort of dance combined with a thumbs-up to the chairman, they’ll love it, can’t wait to make it my profile pic. I wonder why Wilf didn’t play as well today though, ah never mind, must remember to get pineapple from Sainsbury’s on the way home.
Ant, CPFC
And he’s back on the referee…
I may have missed something on Match of the Day or elsewhere, but after the game last night on BT Sport, Howard Webb reviewed the Mata offside goal and adjudged the assistant to have ruled correctly. with a level camera angle that wasn’t available as part of the instant replays it showed that Mata’s foot was ahead of the last defender, the foot being a ‘ball playing’ part of the body and therefore being offside. I take it this has not been picked up elsewhere as all I am reading is that it was incorrectly ruled out? I did think that the assistant got it wrong and was attempting to right the wrong of their first goal but Howard Webb certainly had another opinion.
So that would only leave the Rojo red card (either the straight red or second yellow for tackle from behind), Zlatan handball/Pogba offside goal, Ledley handball, and several United players harassing the ref with no recrimination (maybe even Pogba second yellow for a nice exaggerated dive) that the officials got wrong last night. Against Hull it was only the award of a penalty to Snodgrass and the non-award of the blatant Benteke penalty so Mike Jones>Craig Pawson. Of course none of these refs make as many bad decisions in a game as the guy on the sideline but we shouldn’t let that get in the way of the downward trend of officiating standards we seem to be experiencing and I’m sure the inadequacies of the manager will be covered elsewhere!
Ant, CPFC
A referee responds…
In response to the questions about the officiating in Palace Vs MU and the video trial in the world club vase gong show.
No, Adway, officials do not collude at half time, or at any time to ‘balance their mistakes’. You only make it is a referee if you are totally focused on impartiality. Of course, external factors might affect decision making ability (like crowds – refs are only human) but the top refs and assistants are there because they are the best in the game at judging every decision based on the laws, and their interpretation of the laws.
The Zlatan handball – was it? I have seen three angles. Two angles said chest, one said chest and hand. If the referee or assistants have not seen an intentional hand ball they can’t give it. The offside – were they so clear cut? The top assistants train for years for these incidents but the nature of the game – particularly the amount of things to look for in the goal area – mean that ‘mistakes’ – or what we can see from four slo-mo camera angles as ‘mistakes’ will happen. Rojo – off again? The referee has to judge if a tackle is fair, careless, reckless or uses excessive force. There is no automatic traffic light for this. The ref can only use his/her judgement and ‘interpret’ the laws and make a decision.
Onto the video goal given in Japan this week. On one hand James T points out the positives, and the officials’ public statement supports the goal. But, there is disagreement in the ref community about if this should have been either (in time order): an indirect free-kick for the defence due to attacker blocking (impeding the progress of…) the defender, an indirect free kick for the defence for offside due to the attacker interfering with the opponent’s ability to play the ball…or a penalty for the trip.
All three decisions are justifiable based on different interpretations of the laws of our beautiful game. Meanwhile we’ve lost two minutes and the rest to the video review.. what if there was a red card or goal before play was stopped for the review…will additional time be played for the review correctly…?
For me this just highlights that the offside law is still too complex to be clear to everyone involved – and does not answer real world scenarios. As much as I love video reviews for e.g. goal line, retrospectives, diving… video will just make offside more of a mess.
A lower league ref, F365 lover and Klopp worshipper
Timewasting: Rugby v football
I’m not sure they’ve created a Godwin’s law for anybody referring to football rules and then saying ‘in rugby…’ So here goes.
What I’ve written below certainly isn’t a new concept, but as I see things repeated over the course of time in the mailbox, I might as well duplicate this time wasting view of rugby vs football.
People talking about time wasting is an interesting point. I’ve always wondered why the referee gets to stop the match without telling people when he’s stopping it and for how long. Instead the ‘official’ clock ticks on with everybody unaware. I’ve never understood why it isn’t possible to simply stop the match clock in public when it’s required (eg. an injury to ensure the player gets proper treatment). If you’re in the stadium, it’s even worse as for some bizarre reason, once 90 minutes is up, the clock just stops.
And then, of course, in rugby the match lasts for 80 minutes plus some extra time – i.e. until the ball goes out of play. Therefore, it is up to the defending team to get the ball and end the match, while a team chasing can keep going until they give the ball away or score. Obviously, if there’s foul play the match continues until a legitimate break (throw-in, corner, goal-kick, goal, etc…) in play.
It just seems to me that football’s biggest problem at all levels is the lack of communication from the officials to the players and fans. I’ve always felt that if they explained their decision as the match progressed, everybody would learn to understand what they see and are going through and therefore create empathy and decrease the outrage and abuse. It wouldn’t remove it, but at least it is possible to understand. My understanding is that referees have to submit reports after the match. At least if they were required to talk through their decisions at the time, sure their reports would be easier to create and review as well. I know they communicate with each other, but that’s a very weird state of affairs. Hell, they even cover their mouth when talking to each other.
Of course, the media and powers that be don’t want football to lose this mystique as they fear the level of outrage and discussion would drop. Except it wouldn’t because you can always disagree with the interpretation of the law. But that’s a referee’s job. And when things like handball, offside, diving and tackling are viewed by a human, interpretation is always going to play a part. And it’s not just rugby, cricket does the same with referral decisions where all people can see and hear the decision making process.
It just seems that for the sake of a small amount of time, you could improve the sport we watch – and who knows, we might actually learn something and improve our own behaviour too.
That’s my two-penneth worth anyway.
Rob, London